Curse

Chicken Ftw · Sep 11, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

PvE players tend to be more vocal on the forums but, as one of them, I feel your over-generalizations are harsh.

Harsh yet true for a surprisingly/depressingly high number of players.

GloryFox · Sep 11, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

PvErs cry about anything that remotely forces them to think outside the box. Look at GW:EN section and tell me otherwise, even with your overpowered PvE skills you'll try to find ways to make even the most easy task/dungeon seem like an impossible task and try to tell ANET that's it not the player but the game that is difficult.

PvErs are the majority in this game and they are the most vocal about any change to their homogenized game.(soul reap change anyone?)

WOW I just love how PvP players can troll PvE like this, makes me want to play PvP all day long.

This is why I love AB and Aspenwood I can hit "enter" and play without showing my any evidence of e-mote grinding. Then opposing people can flash their e-motes all day long and by the time they are done typing I can send them back to the res shrine. Its no wonder AB and aspenwood increases a little each day.

E-motes and arrogance for the loss because it creates second class citizens in a virtual world.

fenix · Sep 11, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

PvP has been dead for a long time. How do I know? The Koreans left. They said that they didn't want to play a game where there was no reward. Fun Season after Fun Season made people quit. Even now, it's worse, because all the 'big name' guilds have split, merged, split, merged, and the remnants of them are now a handful of players in a couple of guilds. It's a sad state of affairs.

Sarevok Thordin · Sep 11, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

PvP has been dead for a long time. How do I know? The Koreans left. They said that they didn't want to play a game where there was no reward.

Huh? Elaborate...

fenix · Sep 11, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Huh? Elaborate...

The Korean guilds stopped playing Guild Wars (firstly due to conscriptions, but they did come back at one point), and when they were asked why, they said that they didn't want to play a game with no rewards. This was when there was 4 (?) back to back 'fun seasons', with no explanation as to why there wasn't any prizes being given out aside from capes and in game crap.

savage vapor 33 · Sep 11, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

PVP was dead when heroes were introduced. A little bit before that also because anet really lacked on the skill balances, and didnt have a skill balance for a long period of time.

Play an FPS game, thats all the PVP you will need. lol.

Malice Black · Sep 11, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Enough with the childish bickering, if you can't act like mature people, dont post.

GloryFox · Sep 11, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

anet really lacked on the skill balances,

I see this quote quite often from various long time posters.

Would someone please elaborate as I see ANet "balancing" quite often.

What is it that PvP players would like to see balanced that would revive PvP? Can someone clarify please?
I have an idea of what your are referring too but I'd like a hardcore PvP player to fully explain it with examples. As far as I can tell as long as there is a counter the game is balanced, please explain how PvP can be more balanced that would draw crowds of new players to PvP?

Are there too many skills & classes allowed for PvP? too few? How is PvP unbalanced?

myword · Sep 11, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Its no wonder AB and aspenwood increases a little each day.

really? *loads up bot*

moriz · Sep 11, 2007, 02:45 AM // 02:45

pvp balance needs to be a continuous and gradual process. if a skill is deemed overpowered, then its effectiveness should be scaled back gradually. for example, shaving a bit off its damage, lowering its duration slightly, increasing its recharge by a few seconds. this process will continue at least once a week until the skill becomes balanced.

instead, we get the "nerfbat and booster rockets" skill updates. instead of gradually and continually changing overpowered/underpowered skills at a consistent basis and allowing players to adjust to it, we get the huge nerfbat nerfs, and huge booster rocket boosts. for example, the whole hexway metagame was the result of a single balance update that sent hex duration and power through the roof, and there was not an update to fix it until months later.

if anet really wants to create a healthy pvp playerbase (which they don't, btw. they want all of us to quit so they won't have people who know more about the game than they do yelling at them to fix it), then izzy needs a bigger staff to maintain the "continual, gradual" skill updates. he also needs a new streamlined process, since much of what he wants to accomplish needs to go through higher-ups who don't have a clue about the game, as well as speedier translators.

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 11, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

@Glory Fox

I think you may be just a tad lacking in the whole PVP issue of "If there are counters, everything is okay". Not to mention you are missing the shared thesis of many, whom have posted already. Most of the competitive PVP player base has already moved on because of the lack of balancing issues that took way too long to occur. Some still haven't been addressed. Really no need to beat a dead horse. I'm not to sure there are people willing to make a 10 page historical post about what skills were left unchanged, for how long, how it promoted certain metas, and character mechanics that were left untouched for ages. Fact of the matter is, nothing will bring back the majority of players that left over 3+months ago.

Nightmare_Pwner · Sep 11, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Who the Hell got the Idea of PvP dying? Guildwars Revovles Around PvP Even the Name of the Game Suggests some sort of Player vs Player Combat. Its not that People Suck at PvP or its just dying its just the Ignortant noobs Who Continue to ruin it. I remember When RA was actully a Challenge and the Warrior with a Hammer and Droks Armor was Actully a Challenge and Worth Match to Kill. I also Remember When it was Easy to Get Exped and LEarn something any PvP Aspect Wise. Now if your New or just Suck HA and GVG you Want to stay as Far away from as possible.

What we Really need is a System that Better Introduces PvP to Newbes and Balences out People Who ruin Anything Else Like Leaching Off AB and Quitting Every Match RA.

LONG LIVE PVP WOOOOOOT

Vnewbie · Sep 11, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

*sorta off topic...only sorta*
Rebuff HA by returning the "eternal favor" granted by the "win the hall 5 times". Only this time put it next to the PvE "max titles for favor". So if your country has favor, that time from the PvE gets "banked", and when the PvP favor ends then the banked favor gets put back. Who knows, it just might make HA a bit more...active.

Anyways...yes I am willing to admit that PvP is dying. Dead? No. But dying. There is quite a bit that can be done, yet nothing is being done. To be perfectly honest, I find that Guild Wars has a reputation for having excellent PvP in comparison to other leading MMOs. Why ruin that reputation?

Chicken Ftw · Sep 11, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmare_Pwner

wall of wtf

No. Just no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vnewbie

Rebuff HA by returning the "eternal favor" granted by the "win the hall 5 times". Only this time put it next to the PvE "max titles for favor". So if your country has favor, that time from the PvE gets "banked", and when the PvP favor ends then the banked favor gets put back. Who knows, it just might make HA a bit more...active.

Nobody who plays HA seriously gives a shit about favor. Never have, never will.

Cobalt · Sep 11, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

I think the slow die off of PVP has to do with the many invincible builds out there from M/D, ND, ED’s, to Assassins that constantly block all physical damage and instaheal from other damage.

It really gets ridiculous at times but you sure as hell don’t want them nerft as that would obliterate most PVE builds and they get way over nerf batted already as it is.

Mark Nevermiss · Sep 11, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

It would have been nice if PVP and PVE had been more intertwined in GW than they currently are. To some degree AB and Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry are, but it would have been nice [IMO] if it had gone further.
Imagine a game where you can choose in the RPG to side with the bad guys instead of playing the hero. Imagine missions where you don't only PVE but also PVP against the other side[s] champions [ala Fort Aspenwood] to determine the future of the continent and who wins the campaign Abaddon or the 5, Shiro or the Empire, the Lich or the Mursaat/White Mantle..etc.
Wouldnt it be cool if instead of the favour of the Gods, we get stuff like Nightfall has taken over Elona today [altered weather effects/more demons swarming the lands..etc.] and then players on the good side mount a counter attack [via missions that are PVE + PVP/quests..etc] to tip back the scales against whoever the bad guy is.
I think such an approach not only would keep interest in PVP high but also make PVE grind less necessary to maintain player interest in the game as a whole.
Of course I doubt such a change is possible at this stage, but it would have been nice nonetheless.

Nurse With Wound · Sep 11, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Title of this thread, as well as the OP's concerns are posted year too late. PvP is dead, it cannot even be compared to popularity and quality of pre-nightfall, yet alone pre-factions eras. What we have now are just few remnants grinding irrelevant rewards.

But Vanq and Kunt0r pointed this out before.

From my personal experience...
I quit playing seriously a year ago, still haven't uninstalled yet, like most of my friends who are long long gone. I occasionally play some HA with friends ( those few who remained from the old days ), but at this point, I don't really see the reason nor I have the will to sacrifice so much time to GvG or holding HOH like I did in the past ( daily 7-8 hour sessions, sleepless nights, after that zombie mode @ work and uni ). I just play casually now and then.

PvP was killed by lack of vision, lack of maintenance, lack of care, lack of love and attention from developers. Fans can sustain the scene for only so long... But again, I'm just repeating what others said itt before me. RIP Guild Wars PVP, was great experience while it lasted!

mafia cyborg · Sep 11, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

i would like

1vs1 arena : random or prof vs prof (like me/x vs me/y)
2vs2 arena (with heros allowed)

notes
-to avoid spirit spam crap teams must go to a central area....areas outside the central area collapse or have heavy degen.
- look at warcraft3 to see how hero battles should be (control of heroes, optimal view when zoomed out etc)

anarion · Sep 11, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I think the slow die off of PVP has to do with the many invincible builds out there from M/D, ND, ED’s, to Assassins that constantly block all physical damage and instaheal from other damage.

It really gets ridiculous at times but you sure as hell don’t want them nerft as that would obliterate most PVE builds and they get way over nerf batted already as it is.

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... i'd say you're way off the mark there

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

i would like

1vs1 arena : random or prof vs prof (like me/x vs me/y)
2vs2 arena (with heros allowed)

notes
-to avoid spirit spam crap teams must go to a central area....areas outside the central area collapse or have heavy degen.
- look at warcraft3 to see how hero battles should be (control of heroes, optimal view when zoomed out etc)

bad idea? firstly GW only allows 8 skills on a skillbar and the game is balanced for 8v8 play

1v1 and 2v2, you might as well /roll

HolyHawk · Sep 11, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Dying or not, it's been less fun to even watch games in observer; the at system made ladder disposable, so there isn't much point to play. I don't know if we can date when pvp started dying, but I do believe that a lot of what came with nighfall was responsible; it wasn't as bad before because there wasn't that many skills with questionable balance; if you compare skills introduced in factions, they average as not-so-good/decent, you hardly see anything way too good, and even the too good was more like necessary. When you look at nightfall, you just can't believe why such skills were even placed in the game. And the current balance, which is fairly good, took too long to happen, at the cost of players.

This isn't a real problem, just an opinion, but I do not think that the sin concept helps to preserve a balanced pvp enviroment. You have all skills spread over several classes that supposedely, work together to achieve something, a death; then you pack all you need to achieve the same death in one class, with 4 or 5 skills, under a few seconds. It's not like people don't know how to deal with that, but I, and I'll repeat, _I_ think the "assassination" concept should not have been placed in this way. Offensive shadow step is another mechanic that is terrible.

I honestely don't know how to revert this situation, but I think ladder should encourage players to play again. Rework the k value for ladder, a GW:EN anual championship, anything in those lines, something to give players a goal. All of this concerning gvg, I'm not familiar with HA anymore.